Originally Posted By demderedoseguys ^^ You realize that these are the same people who would be annoyed if someone did the same thing to them.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Okay -- so my point is this. If the Standby line DOES slow down as the result of people using FP's, then can't you say that the advantages that FP users are getting are being paid for by others delays? FP usage comes out of what would be Standby usage if FP weren't there, right? Now if I'm in the Standby line and I understand that "Hey, I might be going slower here, but that's ok because I too can use FP later today and get my share of the quicker access," then things can kind of net out. But if I think "I'm being delayed here because of others, and I can't get my own share of that access because they are already gone," then I feel like I'm being used. If I can't get my share of the access, then what can I get that would at least make me feel like I'm getting SOMETHING for my delay? -------------------- The "you should have gotten up earlier to get your FP's" doesn't cut it. When I have little kids in tow, we sometimes prefer not to come to the park until afternoon, so that we can let the kids sleep in in the morning. If it were possible for me alone to come to the park at rope drop to pick up FP's for the whole group later in the day, I would do it and I wouldn't argue anymore. But you can't. All of the bodies have to pass through the turnstiles before a single individual can collect the tickets and go get the FP's for the group. --------------------------
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <When I have little kids in tow, we sometimes prefer not to come to the park until afternoon, so that we can let the kids sleep in in the morning. If it were possible for me alone to come to the park at rope drop to pick up FP's for the whole group later in the day, I would do it and I wouldn't argue anymore. < okay - the scenario you created wouldn't be fair because you are getting FP for those not in the park - it is not an equal chance for everyone then. Also under that scenario I would see the FP's gone even sooner..as people go there and get 20 of them..how would you limit ? The media for admission is with the kids and they have to show it to get in. I believe this sceanrio of all the tweaks might work the least as I could see ticket hording occuring. I believe the one FP per attraction per day would limit the rides that sometimes run out early. Let's face it not all FP's run our even on the busiest days in early afternoon - the real popular stuff may. My guess is Soarin' / Everest / TT have riders who ride mulitple times on FP -- if you can only get 1 FP per day per attraction ( and surely the system could handle that I would think fairly easily) - it would cut down on some of the real popular rides running out early - or at least make them run out much later - wouldn't ya think or am I wrong on this one- just asking as I don;t think any of us has all the facts we need to design the tweaks ( but I am sure they are available to someone in ops) I understand the letting the kids sleep in scenario, but I find it interesting that in the survey on liking/using FP - overwhelmingly those with kids like and use FP and don't want it going anywhere. Maybe because nighttime 3 EMH hours do not work for them as the kids are way too tired at 1 AM - that is the time for adults to enjoy...( yes I know some people drag along their little ones ...)
Originally Posted By danyoung >The "you should have gotten up earlier to get your FP's" doesn't cut it.< Why not? Pre-FP, the only way you could ride the super big attractions was by getting up early and riding before the long lines built up. It's absolutely no different today. the standby lines aren't as a rule longer timewise than they were in the past. You used to have to wait 90 minutes for Splash in the afternoon, same as today with FP. The only difference is that today's 90 minute standby line moves far slower than the old line did, which could indeed be a problem. But with your example of kids not coming into the park till later in the day, you jump in the 90 minute line, same as before. The only thing FP takes away is the SPEED of the standby line. It does not add any additional time to it. There's a perception that you're moving at a snail's pace while others are whipping past you. This to me would only serve to cause me to get a FP next time - to learn to work the system as it currently is, not how I wish it was.
Originally Posted By kpwdwfan I'm willing to bet that a lot of groups get two to three sets of FP's a day for the same attraction. Maybe one of the tweaks should be to only allow one FP per attraction for every one park ticket. I beleive that a person who has visited Disney many times has an advantage when it comes to using FP's and using the system to it's fullest extent. Some of my extended family went to Disney this summer and they came back saying that they will never go to Disney again without me because they wern't able to see and do half the things they did with me. I guess I'm the FP mule for the family.
Originally Posted By danyoung >I beleive that a person who has visited Disney many times has an advantage when it comes to using FP's and using the system to it's fullest extent.< I fully believe this is true. It's also true that the frequent visitor knows more about early and late EMH hours, about hitting the popular attractions first thing in the morning, about eating during off hours to avoid the rush. In other words, the frequent visitor will be able to enjoy the parks much more efficiently than the first time visitor. And I don't see anything wrong with this. >Some of my extended family went to Disney this summer and they came back saying that they will never go to Disney again without me because they wern't able to see and do half the things they did with me. I guess I'm the FP mule for the family.< Not knowing you or your family I can't say for sure, but I suspect that this is much more to do with your knowledge and direction to get them through a busy park day. I really love going to the parks with family or friends who don't have my knowledge. Not only do I get to show off a bit, but I get to enjoy the parks through their experience. It adds an extra layer of fun to a park storming day.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy Okay, time for full disclosure here. I'm tired of arguing about FP, because we are all coming from different backgrounds, and more importantly we can't agree on what terms like "fair" mean. So here's the deal -- I am FOR FASTPASS, as it exists now, with TWO "tweaks." I understand and agree that if I arrive late at the park, that it's pretty likely that I won't get an FP for a time that's soon. I understand and agree that if I arrive late at the park that I might not even get an FP for a specific attraction at all that day. I can live with both of these. After all, like you say, first come, first serve. However -- Here are my Tweaks -- (1) If an attraction has a recent history of running out of FP's during the day, then LIMIT FP distribution for that attraction to each person who wants one to ONE for that day. (That way, as people are passing me up in the Standby line I can at least know that these people have only done this ONCE today while I've had none) (2) Enforce the return time rules. (That way, any FP ticket that's not used is at least "returned" to the Standby queue, and will make it go faster. Rather than making my late-day wait EVEN LONGER when late FP returners are still allowed on) ---- That said, I WISH FP didn't have 2 lines, especially in view of each other. I think it causes problems, as though the FPer's were "legal" line jumpers.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> There's a perception that you're moving at a snail's pace while others are whipping past you. << But doggone it, PERCEPTION IS IMPORTANT. It's hard to explain to someone who's been standing in line a long time as a seemingly endless stream of happy people go past them. I have tried. Many times.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy If FP can due the 2 tweaks in Post#28, hooray. If not, then I still think it's "unfair" for those 2 reasons.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros "I'm willing to bet that a lot of groups get two to three sets of FP's a day for the same attraction." I know I have done this on several occasions. During Spring Break 05, I think my group of 8 got FP's for Splash at least 5 times. Add those in with ones for Stitch (we hadn't been on it to know better), Space, and Big Thunder, and we made a good haul with the FP's. It definately worked to our advantage to know the system and how to work it. "Maybe one of the tweaks should be to only allow one FP per attraction for every one park ticket." I totally agree with that. However, then people start complaining about how they liked not having to plan out their day, and this really doesn't give much FP flexibility, but I still like it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <So here's the deal -- I am FOR FASTPASS, as it exists now, with TWO "tweaks." I understand and agree that if I arrive late at the park, that it's pretty likely that I won't get an FP for a time that's soon. I understand and agree that if I arrive late at the park that I might not even get an FP for a specific attraction at all that day. I can live with both of these. After all, like you say, first come, first serve. However -- Here are my Tweaks -- (1) If an attraction has a recent history of running out of FP's during the day, then LIMIT FP distribution for that attraction to each person who wants one to ONE for that day. (That way, as people are passing me up in the Standby line I can at least know that these people have only done this ONCE today while I've had none) (2) Enforce the return time rules. (That way, any FP ticket that's not used is at least "returned" to the Standby queue, and will make it go faster. Rather than making my late-day wait EVEN LONGER when late FP returners are still allowed on) ---- That said, I WISH FP didn't have 2 lines, especially in view of each other. I think it causes problems, as though the FPer's were "legal" line jumpers. < it's too bad we don't get to make the rules because I agree with both of those and have brought them up in some form during these discussions. If someone from Disney really does read this, I hope they take these actions. I think they would make FP flow better for everyone yet remain 'fair' to all. p.s. - does this mean you change your vote in the survey numbers ?
Originally Posted By danyoung The only adjustment I'd make to your tweaks, ssWEDguy, is that it wouldn't be too practical to have one a day FP's at some attractions and not all. It's one more thing for people to have to keep track of, and would add confusion. I don't have that much trouble with one a day for all FP attractions, though. If you want to ride again, use the regular line. And I'm really on board for enforcing the end time. I've never understood why Disney allows this to go on. It just about ensures that the finely tuned flow of FP will be stuttering and clogging up throughout the day.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> it wouldn't be too practical to have one a day FP's at some attractions and not all. It's one more thing for people to have to keep track of, and would add confusion. << Honestly, why would it be confusing? If you go to the FP machine and it won't give you a ticket, it will tell you why. Either they're already all gone, or you've already had yours at this attraction for the day. It could even tell you "but you can get FP's for other attractions." The machine would do the work. Whatever -- it won't happen anyway.
Originally Posted By kpwdwfan Dan I, agree with your comments and feel the same way you do. I truly enjoy taking people with me who have never experienced Disney.
Originally Posted By ssWEDguy >> it's too bad we don't get to make the rules because I agree with both of those and have brought them up in some form during these discussions. << Yes you have. We're really not all that far apart on this matter. Though my way of dealing with it might be a little more direct.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>That said, I WISH FP didn't have 2 lines, especially in view of each other. I think it causes problems, as though the FPer's were "legal" line jumpers.<<< Although I have had a lot of trouble expressing that thought, that is exactly what I was going for. I addressed that very issue via e-mail with Disney years ago, when FP was a baby, and had a very nice person actually call me at home. (and it took a number of times to catch me here) to discuss that. My feeling was then and it is now, that it is one thing to offer this service, it is another to literally "rub it in the face" of those that couldn't, for whatever reason, take advantage of it. I suggested that they move the FP entrance to a place that was not visible to those in standby. Maybe do what they used to do with VIP's and disabled and use the exit area to load. It was that exact point that I was trying to make and why I was saying that so many people were unhappy. Looking at it from a strictly business viewpoint, when I offer a service to, let's say, even 50% of my clients that I don't make "equally" available to the other 50%, that is going to make the ones without very unhappy. The argument can be made that they have no reason to be unhappy, depending on the circumstances, but that does not make them any happier. As a Disney stockholder, like so many of you, I want to be sure that Disney is healthy 10 years from now. The chances are that will still be the case but I know, personally, a lot of people that experienced so much frustration that they actually describe there WDW trip as the "first and last time". That concerns me. If they hadn't had to watch the "legal line cutters" they might have not been so upset. At least that's what they told me. Out of sight - out of mind!
Originally Posted By crazyformickey I have been reading everyone's view on Fast Pass and here is my opinion on it. I enjoy Fast pass. If I cannot get a fast pass I will return to the ride at a different time. parade times seem to be best. I use extra magic evening times or go to a different park that is not having extra magic morning hours. I went to Animal Kingdom at opening one morning at rode Everest 6 times in 1 1/2 hours. I used either stand-by or single rider line. On a evening I rode big thunder mountain 4 times during extra magic hours evening with no wait. I avoid the parks from around 1-2 pm till about 6-7 pm which seems to be the hottest and with the most people. I use fast pass for Test Track, Soarin and Rock n Roller coaster otherwise I haven't really had any problems. Mind you I usually go in early June or July when attendence is average or above.
Originally Posted By danyoung >...when I offer a service to, let's say, even 50% of my clients that I don't make "equally" available to the other 50%, that is going to make the ones without very unhappy.< But is it a different scenerio in your business when you make a service available to ALL of your customers, and half of them don't take advantage of it? But I understand your general point. I still don't think of the standby guests as watching the FP'ers sail by and wishing they all were dead. I think it would be more of a "next time I'm getting one of those FP things" kind of deals. We talk a lot about how generally dumb the average tourist is, but I'm thinking most of them know about the benefit and know how to use it.
