Originally Posted By ecdc >>So the actual error, it seems, was made by a company hired as a vendor by the state, not the state itself.<< I think that's what you'd call "irony." I guess I just don't understand why the same arguments come up against the single payer system. While the U.S. wallows at the bottom of the infant mortality rate among industrialized nations, critics scream "Ask a Canadian how long they wait for a doctor!" Huh? If we're so worried about people losing their jobs, shouldn't we be worried about kids dying, or about mothers dying in child birth (we suck at that one, too) or about prescription drug costs (while you're asking a Canadian about apparently waiting 40 years to have a wart removed, ask them what they pay for their drugs) or about preventative care?
Originally Posted By DAR Getting back to the screw up. They've set up a hotline so people can call. <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=705491" target="_blank">http://www.jsonline.com/story/ index.aspx?id=705491</a> Of course because EDS and state government screwed this up people have to have their time wasted. Going back to this same mistake last year of course it cost the taxpayers money for what wasn't there screw up. <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=578307" target="_blank">http://www.jsonline.com/story/ index.aspx?id=578307</a> And of course last year they had no business providing people's SS #'s and probably had no business this year either. <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=549098" target="_blank">http://www.jsonline.com/story/ index.aspx?id=549098</a> And of course my mantra: <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=549407" target="_blank">http://www.jsonline.com/story/ index.aspx?id=549407</a> Now getting back to the health care issue. This is two years in a row this has happened here. What gurantees do any of us have that this couldn't happening if Health Care becomes nationwide? That it wouldn't create more of a headache or more potential screwups That's where my worries come from. Not are people going to be properly covered. I hope people do get to have the best health care possible. Yet somehow I'm labeled as heartless because I'm questioning if these kinds of mistakes can be avoided. I think that's not too far out of bounds.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Why do you jump to such wild conclusions so often? a). No one said you were heartless; b). Everyone agrees mistakes like this should be avoided. Nobody's saying a single-payer system would be mistake-free, or flawless. Rather, we're saying (I am, anyway) that based on the very serious problems with the current system compared to the experience with other countries that have single-payer, I think single-payer is preferable. Not perfect. Preferable.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Why do you jump to such wild conclusions so often? a). No one said you were heartless;>> From post number 9: <<I guess you just want people to suffer and die, because that is what you are advocating.>> The evidence speaks for itself. <<Nobody's saying a single-payer system would be mistake-free, or flawless. Rather, we're saying (I am, anyway) that based on the very serious problems with the current system compared to the experience with other countries that have single-payer, I think single-payer is preferable. Not perfect. Preferable.>> And I don't think it would be preferable. I'd rather see the private system come up with a way to make it affordable for everyone. Don't tell me it can't be done, this is America we've always done things that can't be done.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Don't tell me it can't be done, this is America we've always done things that can't be done." Except its government. America's government can't do crap, right?
Originally Posted By jonvn I didn't say you were heartless. My saying that was an attempt to jolt you into thinking, because I think you are not heartless. I think you are clueless, though, because you don't seem to be able to connect your ideas with the eventual outcomes with what they cause.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Except its government. America's government can't do crap, right?>> The current state of government we have yes. The government that gave us NASA. Sent men into battle in WWII or built the Hoover Dam. That's the government I want back. I want some real damn leaders in this country. Not a real difficult request is it. <<I think you are clueless, though, because you don't seem to be able to connect your ideas with the eventual outcomes with what they cause>> Well let's see this same mistake happens two years in a row when people were promised it wouldn't happen again. But oops it does happen again. Then the people that this happens too have waste their time fixing the problem on their own. I'm sorry but if we're going to a single payer system that the government is going to oversee I'm just not going to be comfortable with these types of mistakes.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < Don't tell me it can't be done, this is America we've always done things that can't be done.> To me, that means we can create a single payer system that is the best in the world. There's an inherent flaw in the current system: the companies behind it make money based on DENYING people care. Profit motive is fine, but in most industries you make money by saying "yes" to people's desires. HMO's make money by saying "no." And not to something relatively trivial like "no, you can't have this flat-screen TV because you can't afford it." But "no, you can't have this life-saving operation because we need to have a 25% return this quarter." There have been a number of conscience-striken people who have testified saying that their bonuses were tied to how many people they denied care. Health care is a necessity, not a luxury.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I'm sorry but if we're going to a single payer system that the government is going to oversee I'm just not going to be comfortable with these types of mistakes.> No one's comfortable with mistakes. But you know something? I'm more comfortable with unintentional mistakes than with INTENTIONALLY denying people care in order to make bigger profits. And that's what we've got now.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "The current state of government we have yes. The government that gave us NASA. Sent men into battle in WWII or built the Hoover Dam. That's the government I want back. I want some real damn leaders in this country. Not a real difficult request is it." I hope you realize you have just asked for a bunch of Democrats.
Originally Posted By DAR <<I hope you realize you have just asked for a bunch of Democrats.>> I don't care who it is to lead us back.
Originally Posted By DAR This is from the first paragrap of the original article: "About 260,000 participants in Medicaid programs were sent a recent mailing that included the recipients' Social Security numbers above their names on the address labels, the state Department of Health and Family Services said Tuesday?" Hmmm Medicaid?? Now I might be clueless but last time I checked Medicaid was...government run.
Originally Posted By DAR And as it turns out I'm not the only one unhappy with the state of our government these days: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080110/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_congress_ap_poll;_ylt=AnlZ4efTS15mhbrp.FS_IxuyFz4D" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 80110/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_congress_ap_poll;_ylt=AnlZ4efTS15mhbrp.FS_IxuyFz4D</a>
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Now I might be clueless but last time I checked Medicaid was...government run. >> OK. Would your insurance company be willing to give medical insurance to old people with pre-existing medical conditions? That's essentially what Medicaid does. If the government isn't doing this, who is? There's no money to be made in providing health insurance to old, sick people. What fantasy private sector solution is going to suddenly decide this is the line of business they want to be in?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Would your insurance company be willing to give medical insurance to old people with pre-existing medical conditions?<< Or unemployed people? Children of unemployed people? Young people with pre-existing conditions? Middle-aged people whose rates skyrocket due to an illness or chronic condition? People earning minimum wage?
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I solidly resent people who say we would be better off with socialized medicine in the USA. If I want a tumorous kidney out, I can get the operation within hours. If I am in a car accident and need cardiovascular repairs, I can get a helicopter ride to the O.R. If my wife wants fake breasts, I can choose from any of 10,000 physicians. The only thing wrong with US healthcare is the HMO scam and the person to blame for that is Time Magazine's person of the year.
Originally Posted By DAR <<and the person to blame for that is Time Magazine's person of the year. >> Vladimir Putin? Or last years pick You?
Originally Posted By DVC_dad We have coverage for kids who's parents don't want to get it, Medicade. Old people? Medicare. Both are a joke, and it would be no better if the government took over the entire healthcare system. It would be exponentially worse.
