Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Other than totally relocating, I don't see how much more they can do and still charge such high prices (why not throw in a ticket along with the 4 day park hoppers for a while...at the very least they might see a boost in park-hopper sales at the cost of filling for free a seat that would otherwise have been empty anyway?). >>> I wonder how this would be accounted for internally. Assuming that this offer included the cheap (er, "least expensive") seats, the list price of the ticket would be fully half the price of the 4-day park hopper ticket. And, assuming that only Zed tickets actually used were counted, any portion of the park hopper ticket apportioned to Zed would come out of the parks' allocation. I don't think that giving away the product is the answer to solving the low sales.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< It's even hard to give directions to from Tokyo in general. >>> Oh come on: "Take the Keiyo Line from Tokyo Station and get off at Maihama Station." That's easier directions than to most places in Tokyo proper. Now, you do have points about the death walk within Tokyo Station to get to the Keiyo Line platform, but I doubt many people would think "Gee, I'd really like to see Zed, if it were not for that 8-minute walk within Tokyo Station." On the other hand, I do agree with the general notion of what you speak about with TDR/Urayasu being in Chiba Prefecture and not in Tokyo proper. I've spoken with people familiar with the city and many of them have the attitude that Urayasu is over in the next time zone, when in reality many of the places in western Tokyo that are within the city are at least twice as far from the city center (but at least they're within Tokyo city limits, apparently goes the thinking). It's been mentioned that the touring CdS shows are very popular in Tokyo. Although they are typically in a more central location, I wonder if it would really make a difference if one had been set up in the parking lot that used to be where Zed's theater is: after all, the touring shows are a very different beast: lots of short-term promotion, plus the notion that it's a "limited-time engagement." I wonder how many people in the greater Tokyo region that are CdS fans plan to "someday" see Zed, but haven't yet since there's the notion that it will always be there.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I don't see how much more they can do and still charge such high prices >>> Speaking specifically to the price, it's an interesting issue. Leemac spoke about the problems related to discounting and the negative perceptions this creates. Mr X seems to suggest that they should try to lower the price. Trying to decide on the proper price points for such a show is difficult: I notice that the breakdown of the seating chart in terms of price tiers is different than it used to be, and that they also seem to have more price tiers (in addition to the notion of "peak" performances with higher prices). They're definitely tweaking the pricing model. Interestingly, when I saw it last week, although the theater was at most half full, there seemed to be an even distribution of occupied seats between the various sections. It was not as if the expensive seats were mostly empty and the cheap seats mostly full. This tells me that they might have the ratio of prices correct but yet can't get the overall demand high enough. But let's look at the larger issue. Let's assume that the reason the Zed theater was located at TDR as opposed to elsewhere in Tokyo was with the expectation that they'd get a large portion of ticket sales from people that were already at the resort to visit the parks (which is basically La Nouba's model). This may be a failed model no matter what the price. The guest population of TDR is very different than that of WDW - it's probably much closer to DLR's. Do you think a resident CdS show in Anaheim would be successful? Consider the number of TDR guests that are day visitors from the greater Tokyo area - how many of them will take 3 hours out of the middle of their day to see a show whose cheapest seats cost more than their park ticket? What about the multi-day visitor that has a 4-day ticket and is staying on-site because they're on vacation from somewhere else? That person is still going to have to pay a minimum 50% of the price of a 4-day park hopper ticket in order to see a 90-minute show. I think you have a problem at either end of the spectrum (day trippers vs people that stay on-site for a multi-day vacation). And, I don't see the problem being solved by lowering the price. Consider a hypothetical situation where they cut the price in all categories by 50%: would the local day-tripper be any more inclined to take 3 hours out of the middle of their day to see Zed? Would a 4-day visitor think that the price for a 90-minute performance of Zed was worth it compared to what they got in the parks? In order for a 50% price reduction to make financial sense for the show, you'd have to have more than a 100% increase in attendance for each and every show. Do you think this would happen? I doubt it, as I don't think the issue with most people to begin with is price. On the flipside, consider a guest like me. I would have paid the going rate for the seat I had, whether it was $25 or $250. I only had to buy one ticket, and it's for a resident show that's among my favorites that's only available half way around the world, so I'm not going to let an extra $100 stop me from seeing it if that's what I want to see and I'm already going to be there. For a great many varying reasons, there are a certain number of guests like me that have little price sensitivity (within reason). So, at least from me, any reduction in the price is only going to result in less revenue to them, and possibly to $0 if they are able to sell out shows that I'd otherwise see. The pricing issue with Zed is a classic business school problem, dealing with price elasticity, and having to guess at how the market will react to various possible changes. Although pricing questions often deal with maximization of profit, I'm sure that OLC would at this point be very happy to find *any* model that would at least break even. Quite ironically, the current situation will probably result in me buying a top-tier ticket for Zed each time I visit TDR, as Zed is one of my favorite CdS shows and I have no idea how long it will last.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Oh come on: "Take the Keiyo Line from Tokyo Station and get off at Maihama Station." That's easier directions than to most places in Tokyo proper.*** Got me there.
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara The whole thing is just a bad idea. Many of the sticking points have already been pointed out: The prices of the tickets are way too high. Park goers are not going to leave the parks to go see a show. People don't stay at the Tokyo Disney Resort long enough to make giving up the park time see like a good option (as in Walt Disney World). People in Tokyo think about Urayasu the way people in Manhattan think about New Jersey: a place to pass through on the highway to the airport. Not a destination for a $300 evening show! And the location of the hideous theater has ruined the design of the beautiful Ambassador Hotel. It's like the mother ship from Close Encounter of the BIG UGLY F**KING BlOCK KIND crashed in front of the hotel. What the hell were they thinking?
Originally Posted By Malin Should the Resort just count its lost already and implode the theatre and add an expansion to the Ambassador Hotel. Since we all agree nothing its going to do is going to turn Zed around.
Originally Posted By Mr X ^---considering all the valuable land they have between failure Ikspiari and failure Zed (with a Disney Hotel right in the midst), I can't believe they couldn't design a fantastic third park with all of that space.
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara Ikspiari is not going anywhere: they need a Downtown Disney. Zed on the other hand ... KABOOM.
Originally Posted By Mr X WHY, exactly, do they "need" a Downtown Disney? Besides, it's no Downtown Disney anyway. It's just a shopping mall. And not a very popular one at that. I'd rather have another park (maybe that's just me ).
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara Is there any way of finding out if Ikspiari is truly a white elephant, or if (for example) it's just breaking even. It's usually fairly busy when I'm there, though the high end fashion shops often appear to be empty, the restaurants are often full. There are always at least 20 people in Maruzen. The moderate to less expensive stores seem to see action. Every Disney resort (except Hong Kong, which has only one park) has a Downtown Disney type area. It is now something we associate as being a part of the "resort" package.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Every Disney resort (except Hong Kong, which has only one park) has a Downtown Disney type area. It is now something we associate as being a part of the "resort" package.*** Who's "we"? I hardly think Tokyo is concerned with frequent globally savvy Disney Resort goers...do the Japanese folks care about Ikpiari or consider it important to they "disney visit"? I tend to think not. And anyway, like I said Ikspiari is NOT like a Downtown Disney. Not even close! It's a regular, Japanese style shopping mall with some good eats and a great grocery store. You wouldn't rather have another park there (or SOMETHING more along the "Disney" lines at least!?). I think Japanese visitors sure would.
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara I don't think you could wedge a third park between Maihama station and the Disney Ambassador Hotel!
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Should the Resort just count its lost already and implode the theatre and add an expansion to the Ambassador Hotel. >>> Or maybe another hotel with a different design, perhaps with some shared facilities. What would be really cool would be to add another monorail station for the expanded hotel.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Besides, it's no Downtown Disney anyway. It's just a shopping mall. And not a very popular one at that. >>> What exactly is a DtD anyway, but a shopping mall that's co-located with a Disney park? Take for example the one in Anaheim - if it were not for the fact that it's next to two Disney parks, would there be anything remarkable about it? ESPN Zone (aka a sports bar), AMC multiplex, restaurants, retail, Rainforest cafe? Except for the ESPN zone, it sounds a lot like Ikspiari to me. I understand some of the issues particular to Ikspiari, but I don't think that some of them would be solved with rebranding it a DtD or even tearing the place down and rebuilding it from scratch as a Disney-designed DtD.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I don't think you could wedge a third park between Maihama station and the Disney Ambassador Hotel!*** Right. But what if the Ambassador was essentially in the MIDDLE of the park (the park then expanding out to the Cirque space). ;D
Originally Posted By Mr X ***What exactly is a DtD anyway, but a shopping mall that's co-located with a Disney park? Take for example the one in Anaheim - if it were not for the fact that it's next to two Disney parks, would there be anything remarkable about it? ESPN Zone (aka a sports bar), AMC multiplex, restaurants, retail, Rainforest cafe? Except for the ESPN zone, it sounds a lot like Ikspiari to me*** Well, first of all my model for what "Downtown Disney" really means is the old-school version of Orlando...which was OBVIOUSLY very "Disney" with the Village, Pleasure Island, and even I think a couple of Disney-themed shops when the expansion first came on line (plus DisneyQuest, of course). Since then they've definitely gone more third-party, but the entire feel of the place is still very much Disney with a capital "D" for me. Some of it is obviously the surroundings (the watercraft, the design of the pathways, etc...) which obviously don't exist in Urayasu since it's all tucked away indoors. But even Anaheim has some of that feel to it as well, the overall design I mean. Plus the monorail gliding overhead, etc... Put it this way, if you took a frequent visitor the the American parks and blindfolded them and flew them to Ikspiari (obviously the person would have to be unfamiliar with Ikspiari specifics, which many people are), then removed the blindfold and let them roam all around the place, would they be likely to tell you that they were at a Disney Resort? The whole feel of the place screams "Japanese fashion mall" to me. Nothing particularly "Disney" about any of it (even the monorail which stops there is tucked away and virtually invisible once inside). Plus, even talking about the third-party shops and all, most of the ones in Anaheim and Florida are fun sorts of places you might like to visit on vacation. Ikspiari has just ONE highly themed restaurant now that P.H. is gone, and a whole heck of a lot of shops and restaurants that, while nice, are no different than those you might find in just about any other mall location throughout Japan.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 "OLC needs to get back to basics and stay focused on TDL and TDS operations... I was scratching my head when I heard they opened ZED." Indeed. They have one of THE BEST theme park resorts in the world. Surely that is enough. I go to the TDR for what is there, not for non-Disney shows. Actually, barely for Disney shows at all!!! ; )
Originally Posted By Malin Is the Downtown Disney concept really that popular? Of the two existing Downtown Disney's in Orlando and Anaheim, I would seriously have to question this down to the fact so many of the shops have closed and become Disney branded ones. I would imagine some venue's like the World of Disney, Rainforest Cafe and House of Blues do make big money. But what about some of the smaller buisnesses? The Disney Village in Paris on the other hand, I would like to think is very profitable. Guest who visit Disneyland Paris tend to do so as part of a vacation package. Disney closes the parks at 7.00 pm on most nights and this leaves plenty of hungry and bored Guest with no other option but to visit the Village. The Disney Village is also the only current shopping and dining district from Disney that is looking into expansion, including a bigger World of Disney Store and a Earl of Sandwich.
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara Downtown Disney in Anaheim has been hugely successful--it's frequently packed and they are going to expand it within the next few years.
